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How can I connect users across galaxies?

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Snoddasmannen

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Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:24 pm

How can I connect users across galaxies?

Hi guys,

Now, there's a really hyped space game out there which was recently released and then seems to have died largely due to stability issues.

I never tried the game, but I absolutely loved the concept and was convinced it would just completely take the world by storm. I guess it didn't ...

Now, I am wondering if I could try to be inspired by certain elements of this game. I have a not-too-shabby user-base in Galimulator, that are as yet utterly isolated in single player mode. But is there something I can do to connect you guys?

No, I'm not thinking full blown multiplayer, this is a different story. More along the lines of: "Oh I see somebody was here before, and did this", or "Oh look at this thing that somebody set up, that's cool", and maybe "Hey, somebody visited this thing I made". Or maybe: "Well, let's see what all the others who tried this did with it.". Maybe you get my general idea.

So just to throw out some random incomplete thoughts:

  • You can visit areas in space and name things or move things around for future visitors to see
  • You can try out challenges or just sandboxes, and then see how other players did with the same thing
  • You can dispatch messengers or stuff that shows up in other players galaxies

I don't know, I feel there must be an idea in here that works, and you guys are a heck of a creative bunch. Share your thoughts!

I really also prefer not to have to deal with things like curse word filtering, or spam protection or rubbish like this, so ideas which let me avoid that are extra appreciated :)
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Some Guy

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Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

Naming Things is a great idea, and so is the challenges. I don't know about moving things around or sending messages, that just doesn't seem natural for a game like this. Also, what do you mean by "try out sandboxes"? You mean like, sharing thrm?
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Hereisyoursign

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Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:30 pm

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

Snoddasmannen wrote:Hi guys,

Now, there's a really hyped space game out there which was recently released and then seems to have died largely due to stability issues.

I never tried the game, but I absolutely loved the concept and was convinced it would just completely take the world by storm. I guess it didn't ...

Now, I am wondering if I could try to be inspired by certain elements of this game. I have a not-too-shabby user-base in Galimulator, that are as yet utterly isolated in single player mode. But is there something I can do to connect you guys?

No, I'm not thinking full blown multiplayer, this is a different story. More along the lines of: "Oh I see somebody was here before, and did this", or "Oh look at this thing that somebody set up, that's cool", and maybe "Hey, somebody visited this thing I made". Or maybe: "Well, let's see what all the others who tried this did with it.". Maybe you get my general idea.

So just to throw out some random incomplete thoughts:

  • You can visit areas in space and name things or move things around for future visitors to see
  • You can try out challenges or just sandboxes, and then see how other players did with the same thing
  • You can dispatch messengers or stuff that shows up in other players galaxies

I don't know, I feel there must be an idea in here that works, and you guys are a heck of a creative bunch. Share your thoughts!

I really also prefer not to have to deal with things like curse word filtering, or spam protection or rubbish like this, so ideas which let me avoid that are extra appreciated :)


Yeah that woulf be cool naming things, maybe users with internet of course could send shouts or Radio Bursts to send random messages, the messages can hit any random user alnost as if the people in the galaxy are shooting random messages to see if life exsists heyond the galaxy, the user on the other end can respond with there own burst back at the original user/galaxy, and then conversations could start, maybe even the both users could send invasion forces to each others galaxies, basiclly a new hostile and foreign empire gets a star or two and has a bunch of ships, note that bursts cant be too direct as a message system, you wouls have to treat it as if two galaxies wanted to talk but they dont know where to send there messages at first, also snodd if you want to forge a more active and vibrant community just make a mode where you can make galaxies, save them or a galaxy mid game and upload it, so lets say a empire called toads of cheilakh starts taking ovee and you want to upload it so other people can try out the galaxy you can, or lets say you wanna make ur own galaxy. You can start with a base plate or stary from scratch,.you can rename stars, move them forge new links and make new empires and such on, with a 1000 star limit.

Btw RIP No Mans sky
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Kepler Orion

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Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

Oh boy this ought to be fun. :D

I've only recently begun dabbling around with programming, particularly in Java. So I can't give a fantastic technical answer to your question, but I can present some ideas that could enhance and simplify that portion of gameplay.

So, first I'll lay out some concerns on top of your's:
1) How do we fit a multiplayer mode of this sort into Galimulator as it is presented presently?
2) How do we construct a consistent galaxy without overloading any user or server(s)?
3) How do we make it fun and enjoyable?
4) How does time work in the persistent galaxy?
5) How do previous aspects of the game fit into a persistent galaxy?
6) What about challenges and accomplishments?

I'll try and answer your questions first Snodd. Again, please keep in mind I'm no where near technical enough to fulfill your desires for knowledge as you seek them. I apologize for my shortcomings, my job has kept me quite busy and short on free time.

Firstly, how to connect users.
I can't provide a technical answer for this; however, we could divide this virtual galaxy into "instances" where different players are altering non-static elements in each instance. More on this later.

Secondly,visiting different areas of space, trying out different challenges/sandboxes, etc. I think I can best cover this under my second concern below. :)

My first concern: "1) How do we fit a multiplayer mode of this sort into Galimulator as it is presented presently?":

Perhaps a menu would be applicable if this feature were implemented. What this virtual world would be called is up to you and the community. However, I highly recommend a menu so that the sidebar for single-player doesn't become to cluttered/confusing for the user.

The persistent multi-user aspect of the game could give users the opportunity to unlock new ships, space oddities, artifacts, etc. found throughout this galaxy for use in their own singleplayer galaxies. That would provide incentive to use the persistent galaxy, and allow it to be better incorporated into the game.

2) "How do we construct a consistent galaxy without overloading any user or server(s)?":

This brings me back to "instances" for elements of the persistent multi-user galaxy. I'm going to start calling it the Grand-Galaxy for right now because why not, it's easier.

The Grand-Galaxy could be separated into instances that are created and run by users. For starters, the center of the Galaxy is comprised of consistent instances that will exist as a form of lobby for new-players.

Instances would be arranged like a standard galaxy would be on singleplayer, represented visually the exact same way. Within each "instance" there are some number of stars, with discoveries, artifacts, etc. When players are interacting within these instances, the changes that are made are saved within the instance. Each instance is it's own little Galaxy where player's are interacting in some (not yet specified) way.

In sum, when a player creates a galaxy and connects it to the Grand-Galaxy, that galaxy will appear as a sprite on the Grand-Galactic map, indicating a place that can be visited. I recommend that after creating a galaxy that is connected to the grand-galaxy, a player cannot delete or remove their galaxy with resetting their entire game. It would be unfair for other player's role-playing within another player's galaxy, if all the sudden their empire was deleted because another player simply didn't like their galaxy.

3) "3) How do we make it fun and enjoyable?":

Really, it would probably be hard to mess this up. What ruined No Man's Sky may very well have been the lack of any true action.

In my opinion, I think the incorporation of "Scavenger Mode" as an evolution of what we've conceptualized in the past could fit very well in a universe where player's could interact with and change the persistent Grand-Galaxy. You can start off with the cliche small ship that can only traverse the instance you begin in. Each star you stop by within the instance has challenges that can be fulfilled, ships and "gifts" that can be unlocked, jobs to be jobbed, etc. With time you can travel to other instances, and have greater impacts on those instances. The game could be a role-play as well where you can work your way through different jobs, and perhaps even become an emperor in someone else's Galaxy/instance.

I don't want to dive too deep into gameplay because I do not have the clearest nor the best vision for this potential aspect of the game. I also don't want to start spitting too crazy of ideas, so please bare with me.

In some instances there are sandboxes that come with challenges to be completed, or just sandboxes that other people have controlled for a time.

4) "How does time work in the persistent galaxy?":
Time would not have to be consistent between all galaxies. On an inter-galactic scale, it does not matter where in time other galaxies are really because it's all relative. Each galaxy should have a millennial age still, I believe. The age of the galaxy increases at a standard rate for scavengers, and at either standard or double speed depending on the galaxy's god (original creator).

5) "How do previous aspects of the game fit into a persistent galaxy?":

Joining an instance with no active user will activate that instance, and require that user to become the "host". They will then run all the information for that galaxy and the changes that occur. The first person to join a galaxy will remain its host for the entire duration of their play-time. Upon leaving the next longest-active player will become host, so on.
Galaxies will still work the same way, but their data will be shared by users, and saved in a cloud of sorts for the next host who visits the instance.
6) "What about challenges and accomplishments?":

To start a challenge, a player in sandbox mode or scavenger mode can click "challenge", and a timer will begin. Every accomplishment he/she accomplishes will be logged, and another player will have to beat their time or fulfill the requirements for the challenge. For example, a scavenger challenges players to become emperor of an empire within 6 millennia, or destroy some amount of ships, attain a certain amount of wealth, etc. Sandbox players challenge one another to conquer the galaxy within 10 millennia, achieve tech 9 within 25 millennia, or transcend with control of at least 98% of the galaxy, etc.

This could work by the player clicking the "challenge" button, and upon doing what they'd wanted to accomplish, click "end challenge", and go through a checklist of all that they achieved. They can check which ones they want to challenge other players to accomplish, and whether or not they want to give them a time limit to do so.

Completing challenges could allow players to potentially win unique items in the game.

I'm just throwing unrefined ideas out there for how to make this a feasible aspect of the game. Essentially, data sharing. You create a galaxy within the Grand-Galaxy, or Grand-Universe, and it pops up for everyone to visit. You leave, the data is stored online for the next user to join that galaxy. Whether or not users can create an unlimited number of galaxies is up to Snodd I suppose. Obviously, that would certainly allow the "infinite" aspect of a universe to begin taking place. Otherwise, given the player base, the galactic map will likely already be massive.

Just throwing these ideas out there, tell me what ya'll think :)
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Hereisyoursign

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Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:11 am

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

Kepler is there a shortened version of that? This has to be the largest post I've ever seen on Galimulator, props to you man!
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Kepler Orion

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Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:00 am

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

Hereisyoursign wrote:Kepler is there a shortened version of that? This has to be the largest post I've ever seen on Galimulator, props to you man!


TLDR;
•I don't know the technical side of things, so my description will be less than satisfactory.

•Each player's galaxy on the persistent galaxy side of the game will be saved after each session. Creating a new galaxy will make it an accessible point on the galactic map. Other players may click on this point (read: every point) and view that smaller part of the galaxy. If they are the only player viewing that galaxy at the time, they will host it. This means their computer/phone is responsible for processing and transmitting for the galaxy back to a central server.

If you're not the host (read: first person to join the galaxy, and still be running that session), than you are not responsible for much of the data load, it will be displayed on the other player's device, and transmitted after the host leaves. If there is more than one player on a session, hosting responsibilities are shifted over to the next most elder player (the player who's been there longest). Should there be no one else on the session, no more data for that galaxy is processed, time stops progressing, and all information for that session is sent to a central server.

I'm not sure if there is a technical name for that sort of data sharing.

•I outlined a function for how challenges may work.

•Galaxy contains gifts that the player can unlock if found.

•Scavenger mode is incorporated somehow to add greater incentive for players to travel between other player's galaxies.

•Time is just data, and can be transmitted back to the central server. All galaxies will likely be functioning on different timescales. Obviously the more visited galaxies will have progressed the furthest in time.

I apologize for the obnoxiously long post(s), I've been off my game in terms of efficiently conveying ideas of late. :P
I pick quality and quantity.
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Hereisyoursign

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Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:53 am

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

I dont think we should add incentives to use the online features, the features themselves should be the incentive, not some petty reward, i would feel not so good about the direction of galimulator if we needed to have a facebook or something to acsess a feature or get extra wealth, it wouldnt feel right, if anything the features should change the simulation, what the game is reallt about, like i said foriegn invasion, maybe led by other players etc. With the only thing not being tied to a specific galaxy being messages (if the other user responds that user will be marked down for future use no matter what) heck maybe even AI offline can launch foriegn invasions (although make sure to mark them as bots so we dont have to ponder if we are fighting real people and changing there galaxy or just messing with some AI)(Also Online features HAVE to be optional, i dont want to have a simualtion going on for 400M only to have some jerkhole send a galacitc thermonuclear bomb my way)
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Kepler Orion

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Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

I'm not sure how Facebook became involved.

By incentives, I mean that if you visit someone else's galaxy, you have the chance of unlocking something like the Shogoth while you're playing there. Or, maybe someone left you some kinda of reward or artifact for your galaxy. It's up to Snodd really.

I'm not a fan of pay-to-win but if Snodd wants the game to go in that direction then so be it, it's his game. I was not advocating for it.

I want to emphasize that I am only putting out ideas, I'm not trying to force the game in any direction if there was concern about whether I was doing that.
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Snoddasmannen

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Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:30 am

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

Wow, I love the ideas Kepler! Now I need to think about just how much of that is technically feasible in Galimulator, probably I'll have to do some serious cherry-picking and tweaking :)

But in a professional setting, where I had a team of engineers to work on this stuff, I think all of the ideas would be feasible. So I hope you will continue on your path as a programmer and be a great contributor to one of those teams one day.
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Kepler Orion

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Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:29 am

Re: How can I connect users across galaxies?

Snoddasmannen wrote:Wow, I love the ideas Kepler! Now I need to think about just how much of that is technically feasible in Galimulator, probably I'll have to do some serious cherry-picking and tweaking :)

But in a professional setting, where I had a team of engineers to work on this stuff, I think all of the ideas would be feasible. So I hope you will continue on your path as a programmer and be a great contributor to one of those teams one day.


Yea please cherry pick and tweak everything out if need be! ;)

And thanks that is the hope of sorts :)
I pick quality and quantity.
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